The goal of this interview series is to inspire and help people to transition their career into a new or next experimentation related role. In this edition Bart Schutz shares his journey. He is co-founder & owner of www.onlinedialogue.com. Senior consultant and guest lecturer at universities and business schools. Bart started different initiatives in the last years: Wheel of Persuasion / Team Croco / Ulaya. Featured in this documentary from VPRO and was part of the NIP.
Please help me with the better-purpose transformation of experimentation. In your role too, it is possible to contribute to this every day. Is the impact on the well-being and prosperity of customers measured as a success metric? Or on climate? Try to improve that every day and learn more and more.
Bart Schutz
Please introduce yourself to our readers.
I am a thought leader in the field of “behavioral science for positive change”. Pioneer, entrepreneur and senior consultant in the fields of consumer psychology, experimentation and ethics.
Since digital made behavior measurable at an unbelievable scale, behavioral insights and methods are increasingly valued and applied, revealing the sophisticated causal drivers oif humanity and allowing us to have unprecedented positive impact on people, planet and prosperity.
What is your current experimentation role and what do you do?
Co-founder & owner of OnlineDialogue.com. Senior consultant and guest lecturer at universities and business schools.
I specialise in applying behavioral experimentation for positive impact on people, planet & prosperity.
How did you enter the experimentation space? What was your first experimentation related role? Share your origin story here.
I founded a User-Testing agency in the 20th century (I did over 2.000 qualitative user tests).
How did you start to learn experimentation?
Studying (consumer) psychology I was academically trained for 4 years in experimental design and statistics. Still priceless knowledge & skills 25 years later!
How do you apply experimentation in your personal life? (what are you tinkering with or always optimizing?)
That is not to be disclosed…
But one example: I did the marshmallow experiment with my kids to track their difference in and development of delayed gratification.
What are you currently doing to keep up with the ever-changing industry?
I am trying to wake up the industry and make people aware that we are in a self-destructive-crisis. Experimentation is becoming cheaper and faster everyday. But not better. We’re scaling bullshit.
First, our results are untrustworthy and our business cases statistical are bullshit. If we do not tackle these fundamental basics, we will keep lying and loose momentum & positive impact.
Secondly, our success and guardrail metrics are self-centered. We’re changing behavior at scale for our own benefit. Profit over people & planet. This is already back-firing the industry. People are more and more suspicious or outright against us. We like ourselves, but all the others don’t like us.
What recommendations would you give to someone who is looking to join the experimentation industry and get their first full-time position?
Follow courses and experts in 3 fields: Statistics, Psychology and Ethics. And look in the mirror everyday asking yourself ‘how can I optimize living up to my norms & values?’.
Which developments in experimentation excite you? How do you see the field changing in the next 5 to 10 years? What will stay the same? What’s not going to change in the next ten years?
I am excited and afraid about the ubiquitous application of experimentation. We’ve proven the value, everybody embraces it, AI superpower it. So the sheer power of globally influencing and changing behavior is unprecedented. We can continue to look with blinders on at the profits of millions of competing individual companies. Or we open up, look around and apply the same force to create a happier, wealthier and sustainable future for all life on our tiny planet…
Unfortunately, I don’t have a lot of faith in humanity when it comes to putting everyone’s interests above their own. But I don’t want to be the one who was there and didn’t try to do anything about it.
Is there anything people reading this can help you with? Or any parting words?
Please, please, please,
Please help me with the better-purpose transformation of experimentation. In your role too, it is possible to contribute to this every day. Is the impact on the well-being and prosperity of customers measured as a success metric? Or on climate? Try to improve that every day and learn more and more. For many, it is equally fantastic to see how much impact experimentation has on business profits, as well as on people and planet.
Example: Do you work in ecommerce? Suggest to your management to rate the success metrics (CR, AOV, …) on pre-loved articles higher than the same metrics on new articles. At a bank, the same can be done on construction deposits for mortgages (valuing money for sustainability higher than money for other renovations). Many such small steps make a huge difference.
And don’t hesitate to ask for help. Only together can we optimize the future.
Which other experimenters would you love to read an interview by?
- Kobe Millet (Professor of Decision Making & Sustainability in Marketing)
- Eddy van der Sman (Product Leader & Social Psychologist NIP / Personalization, Experimentation, Automation / Digital & Marketing Technology)
- John Ekman (Conversionista)
- Vlad Popa (Owner TeamCROco – Romania)
- Kees Mulder (Experimentation Data Scientist & Statistician at Bol.com)
- Wilte Zijlstra (Dutch ministry of Foreign Affairs)
Thank you Bart for sharing your journey and insights.
