The goal of this interview series is to inspire and help people to transition their career into a new or next experimentation related role. In this edition Shiva Manjunath shares his journey.
You might know Shiva as the “The Experimentation Memelord”. He has been been in experimentation for 10+ years or so now and is the host of the experimentation podcast From A to B! Contact Shiva via LinkedIn,
Don’t think your experimentation program sucks … All programs start somewhere – keep on grinding to build the absolute best program you can!
Shiva Manjunath
What is your current experimentation role and what do you do?
Right now I’m a Senior Web Product Manager for CRO at Motive! All things testing/optimization runs through me. Right now, I’m in the process of laying out all of our research initiatives in addition to getting our testing and personalization strategy ready to go for Q1 next year!
How did you enter the experimentation space? What was your first experimentation related role?
They say you don’t fail, you just learn, right? Well I “learned” I’m not qualified to be a doctor. That counts as a learning, not a failure, right? So after that ‘learning’ I pivoted into digital marketing. I started becoming more and more interested in psychology, but couldn’t design for sh*t. My first role was more of a digital marketing analyst, but experimentation / CRO was the thing that I naturally gravitated towards.
How did you start to learn experimentation?
There are a lot of great courses out there which set you up fantastically TO actually test, but in my opinion the best way is to run (controlled) tests. I had that opportunity through running basic ad copy A/B tests on paid search campaigns at first, which was just a very cool opportunity to see how you can compare results across campaigns. But I gravitated very quickly to running actual tests on websites (through graphical editors). Were they my best tests? Nah – but you learned some very interesting things about the process of testing (along with some surprising test wins as well).
How do you apply experimentation in your personal life?
Every little thing! But the two which are top of mind for me:
Gym / workout / supplements: I am obsessed with finding the right supplements to actually improve my efficiency at the gym, and weeding out all the low quality supplements which say they do a lot but actually do nothing (a lot of this exists in the CRO world too….).
Coffee: You can test coffee with different roasts, different locations, soil types, pour over temps, etc. – there are SO many variables, the amount of testing and optimization is endless!
What are you currently doing to keep up with the ever-changing industry?
Just trying to network (or e-network) and talk to others in the space. I had the pleasure of e-connecting with Kevin Anderson recently! Awesome dude. 10/10 would talk to him again. Not everyone who’s publicly talking about doing CRO/Experimentation is posting about it, though. PLENTY of awesome people are doing it silently behind the scenes, and many of these folks are rockstars. There is a lot of great content on LinkedIn – though, I’d say be careful about blindly taking advice without fully understanding the ‘why’ behind what anyone says.
What recommendations would you give to someone who is looking to join the experimentation industry and get their first full-time position?
This depends on where you’re at right now. Two avenues come to mind:
- Pivot into experimentation: There are many roles where people are trying to pivot/learn more about experimentation as the industry grows. I know a few people who are experimentation managers who started in UX, engineering, brand, etc. and they are now heavily involved in experimentation. If this is the route you are looking to go, I’d recommend investing time into taking classes (CXL’s class is long but worth it!) as well as doing your best to inject ‘experimentation’ into the organizations you’re working at. There may even be an opportunity for you to be that experimentation manager moving forward.
- Start from scratch into experimentation: This one is more difficult. I do think it’s worth taking classes to learn about experimentation, but I do think you learn a lot more from ‘doing’ than just by learning about it. Entry level experimentation analyst roles / internships are a great way to see if you enjoy experimentation and want to continue to grow in the industry.
Which developments in experimentation excite you? How do you see the field changing in the next 5 to 10 years?
It’s mostly the fact that more and more people are talking about it. It took a while for ‘being data driven’ to be a non-negotiable for many organizations, and soon, ‘experimentation’ will be a non-negotiable for measurement/growth-focused organizations. I know we’re in an AI hype cycle too, where people think “CRO is dead” (it’s not). I think AI will have it’s time in the light just like the calculator makes doing math a lot easier (assuming you know what you’re doing), and I think AI in experimentation will only enable strategists to think more strategically and affect more change.
Is there anything people reading this can help you with? Or any parting words?
Don’t think your experimentation program sucks when you read about all the programs running hundreds of tests a month, and hearing about ‘centers of excellence’ when you are struggling to stay afloat by yourself. All programs start somewhere – keep on grinding to build the absolute best program you can!
Which other experimenters would you love to read an interview by?
Stewart Ehoff. He’s the GOAT (Greatest Of All Time)
Thank you Shiva for sharing your journey and insights with the community.
