The goal of this interview series is to inspire and help people to transition their career into a new or next experimentation related role. In this edition Ruben de Boer shares his journey. You can follow Ruben on LinkedIn, or via Online Dialogue and Conversion Ideas.
Please introduce yourself to our readers.
Hi! My name is Ruben.
I have been in the business of data, optimization, and experimentation for nearly 15 years. Today, I am the lead CRO manager/consultant at Online Dialogue and owner of Conversion Ideas.
At Online Dialogue, I lead the Conversion Manager team and large experimentation and optimization projects for several great clients.
With Conversion Ideas, I strive to help people kickstart their careers in Conversion Rate Optimization and Experimentation by providing affordable, high-quality online courses, free tips, and a free book. I also aim to connect with like-minded individuals worldwide.
I am also an international keynote speaker and live and breathe optimization—both at work and in my personal life.
I live in Amsterdam, The Netherlands, with my girlfriend Zoe and dog Happy. I love sports, meeting people, and hiking.
What is your current experimentation role and what do you do?
At Online Dialogue, I am the lead CRO manager/consultant. In this role, I am responsible for developing team skills and the team’s quality (each team member is responsible for this), setting the team strategy & goals, and business development.
Of course, I am also still a CRO manager, helping various great clients with experimentation. Projects can be related to setting a strategy and improving organizational culture, setting (experimentation) goals and its scope, leading multidisciplinary teams, and setting up and improving the CRO process.
With Conversion Ideas, my current activities include five Udemy courses (13,000+ students), coaching clients around the world, a newsletter with 1,600+ subscribers, a free book ‘Psychology for A/B Testing,’ and a free course ‘Personal Branding & Online Presence’ all with the goal to help people in their CRO career.
How did you enter the experimentation space? What was your first experimentation related role?
That is a fun story!
In 2008, I was a marketer and optimized my first website for a company in which I later became a partner. It was a coaching company aimed at helping people with their personal growth.
The company failed, but it sparked my interest in human behavior, experimentation, and optimization. Both in my personal life and online.
Furthermore, I have always been better with numbers than words, and I am result-driven.
Due to these factors, I naturally gravitated towards CRO.
How did you start to learn experimentation?
By making a lot of mistakes. 🙂
I tried a lot, failed a lot, and optimized. I read books and started talking to other specialists in the market (as I still do today).
How do you apply experimentation in your personal life? (what are you tinkering with or always optimizing?)
Great questions. I believe that if you have a true optimization mindset you (can) apply it in all areas of life, including your personal life.
I always optimize for whatever I need. It can be related to mindset, physical, emotional, and spiritual health. This could include sleep, sports, journaling, meditation, food, mindfulness, social skills, money, and many other things. I balance fun (including the lesser healthy things 🙂 ) and health.
What are you currently doing to keep up with the ever-changing industry?
Learn a lot and stay curious. Read books, talk to others, visit conferences, listen to podcasts, and read posts and articles on LinkedIn.
And if it is relevant, try things out. For example, to get acquainted with AI, try it out and have fun with it. Find out how it is helpful and how not (and have a good laugh).
What recommendations would you give to someone who is looking to join the experimentation industry and get their first full-time position?
This is a question I receive a lot. It can be very challenging, especially in countries with a limited understanding of CRO. It can be frustrating for those passionate about CRO but unable to find a job. I, therefore, wrote an article about it with hopefully some helpful tips: https://conversionideas.com/how-to-find-a-cro-job/
In short, do some CRO work in your current job to get experience, develop a unique skill set, get certified (not necessarily for the certificate, but also to show you are eager to learn), build a network, offer free help, and apply for a CRO job often (check Experimentation Jobs portal).
It is also the main reason I created my Udemy courses: https://conversionideas.com/online-courses/. These courses help you learn CRO (thus preparing you for job interviews) and get certificates for affordable prices (courses sell for less than €15).
If you don’t have a job or lack the budget, please feel free to message me, and you receive free access to any of my courses you want.
Which developments in experimentation excite you? How do you see the field changing in the next 5 to 10 years?
This is completely different for each country. In the more mature markets, I see CRO move more and more to product teams, including a discovery and delivery track. On the marketing side things will get more interesting with more data and hyper-personalization. Of course, AI will also play a bigger role.
For the less mature markets, they will not stay behind; in those markets, CRO will become bigger and bigger. In the Netherlands, it is common for all larger companies to have at least one CRO specialist. I hope this will happen in the rest of the world as well.
Is there anything people reading this can help you with? Or any parting words?
I love helping people, teams, and organizations with experimentation and optimization. The first one, people, is perhaps the most challenging. As mentioned, I receive many questions on how to get that first CRO job and where to learn CRO without paying business-to-business prices.
I believe I tackled the learning part with my complete Udemy courses. Helping people land their first job remains a challenge. I am glad this question is in these interviews. But if anyone has another great idea besides the work I do now, or if you are missing something, send me a message. 🙂
Which other experimenters would you love to read an interview by?
I can name many. A few; Ton Wesseling, Desiree van der Horst, Shirley van Haalem, Naomi Smulders, Daphne Tideman, Kenda Macdonald, David Mannheim, Shiva Manjunath, Scott Reid, Ryan Levander, Richard Joe, Nils Koppelmann.
Thank you Ruben for sharing your journey with the community.
