The goal of this interview series is to inspire and help people to transition their career into a new or next experimentation related role. In this edition David Mannheim shares his journey. David is the founder of Made With Intent.
I think “what to experiment” will become more at the forefront. Currently, and forgive me for potentially being so blasphemous, but online brands mostly test by moving sh*t around on a page.
David Mannheim
Please introduce yourself to our readers.
I’m David. I am a Disney fan, a father of two and I support Manchester United. I’m sorry (but also not sorry at all) I am firmly in the conversion optimisation space, but having written a book called “The Person in Personalisation”, my research, interests and chip on my shoulder has led me towards the personalisation space. A dark black hole of theories, juxtapositions and unknowns where “every year is the year of personalisation”.
What is your current experimentation role and what do you do?
It’s a bit of a complicated one.
I founded User Conversion, a leading conversion rate optimisation agency in the UK. We were acquired in 2021, six years after founding the business. In the six years that I was running it, we ran thousands of experiments for some of the biggest retailers in the UK; so I’m used to seeing this mature over a diverse set of, largely eCommerce, clients.
Now, I’ve started my second business, Made With Intent. A segmentation platform that allows you to understand and target customer intent. We run experiments all the time given that’s my background for our messaging, positioning and product … but I suspect you’ll want the juicy stuff from my User Conversion days.
How did you enter the experimentation space? What was your first experimentation related role? Share your origin story here.
I took the squiggly career of funnelling down from Advertising account management. To Digital advertising account management. To user experience. To conversion rate optimisation. To, now, personalisation.
One would typically classify my “conversion rate optimisation” days as being the start of experimentation. The two are vastly different, it must be said. One is a mindset, the other is a process. You decide which is which, I won’t get into that debate.
How did you start to learn experimentation?
I was enrolled in the Human Factors International (HFI) courses on user experience, which were, in my opinion, archai (Sorry, just not for me). So I learned by doing, mostly. I went to events, spoke to people, read an inordinate amount of books. My biggest lessons were by just diving in the deep end and doing everything wrong. That’s experimentation, right?
How do you apply experimentation in your personal life? (what are you tinkering with or always optimizing?)
Is it unethical to say my children?
Parenting is one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. Scratch that. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I’ve had far too much therapy to understand how such small acts can impact so far into the future. So I do test out scenarios between them. Obviously there’s no effective control apart from child two who will receive no treatment, but I’ve found it to be somewhat effective when encouraging behaviours.
By the way. We don’t call our children “Child 1” and “Child 2”. They have actual names.
What are you currently doing to keep up with the ever-changing industry?
Getting ahead of it.
I’ve started Made With Intent; a customer segmentation platform that allows teams to optimise against how people actually buy. Not in pages, as we so often run experiments, arbitrarily assuming that the location of the user on site is indicative of their intent. This isn’t true. 62% of all users on a PDP are still just browsing, according to our data. What if you could identify someons level of intent to purchase, exit, or abandon and then target those users? That’s what we do.
What recommendations would you give to someone who is looking to join the experimentation industry and get their first full-time position?
Appreciate the (very clear) differences between conversion rate optimisation and experimentation.
I was a CRO-person. And it’s CRO, by the way, not pronounced “crow.” I was (and am) someone who had a broad skill set with the ability to analyse user behaviour and creatively come up with applications to solve those problem statements or facilitate that behaviour. I was not an experimenter who scientifically analysed variables against effective controls. My brain is somewhat analytical, but not as much as my creativity. Sure, I learned that along the way. But my roots were always in human centered design and tackling user problems designed to make businesses more appropriate to human needs. Appreciate the difference between the two would be my advice.
Which developments in experimentation excite you? How do you see the field changing in the next 5 to 10 years? What will stay the same? What’s not going to change in the next ten years?
I think “what to experiment” will become more at the forefront. Currently, and forgive me for potentially being so blasphemous, but online brands mostly test by moving sh*t around on a page. The “sticky call to action” brigade. This is a mindset of testing on pages, not the customer buying stage. We’ll effectively turn this into a hashtag I’m sure: #stagesnotpages. Experimentation will move beyond this, and already is at some of the most mature of organisations. Intent experimentation, or offline experimentation, or even experimentation with your children…
Is there anything people reading this can help you with? Or any parting words?
I’m always after feedback. So my question is, do you believe in this?
Do you believe that we should be testing the intent of the user, not their location on site? (stagesnotpages). What problems do you foresee in testing with such a targeting principal?
Which other experimenters would you love to read an interview by?
Think of those who are clearly in the experimentation lane. The ones in the trenches, doing work that is diligent and scientific, are able to educate our industry at the same time. Whilst, by the way, doing it with a smile. Some form of funny bone. Hannah Tickle is a great candidate.
Thank you David for sharing your journey and insights with the community.
